Sunday, May 17, 2009

Metallica haters

I think someone has to speak out with a reality check for Metallica music.  Unlike somebody who listened to a small piece of one song on the radio, I have heard the whole album multiple times, and, yes people still do buy their albums.  Would you take one bite of a five course meal and judge the whole meal based on that bite? Do you review movies based solely on the preview?  I'm sorry but I can garauntee you that Dave Mustaine has always regretted getting kicked out of the band.  He has even said so publicly.  I love Megadeth but you have to admit they are always  in the shadow of Metallica.  As for the changes within the "day that never comes" song, I think you may have forgotten about at least half a dozen songs on kill em all or and justice for all.  Listen to the four horsemen or harvester of sorrow and tell me they aren't different parts put together.  If you remembered your Metallica history you would know that this fits right in the formula that has made some great songs in the past.
As far as Hetfield's vocals go, sure age has taken its toll on his voice.  Name some singers who have been going at it so fierce for so long that haven't shown wear for the worse   e.g. Ozzy, Sebastian Bach, or Axle Rose.  I think you were making reference to Velveeta when you talked about processed things since I don't know what the heck Velvetta even is.  If you are under the impression that there are big time singers still out there who don't process their voices and spend hours fixing voice problems or rerecording tracks you have been duped my friend.
Now we respond to the video game problem.  There are so many bands in those games that are still considered respectable.  Slayer tried to get into rock band but was turned down.  Are they less hardcore because they wanted to make a few more million dollars?  Any band who has an opportunity to get their name on a huge popular great-selling item will do it.  That is why they get into it.  Sure bands love to make music, but the real reason they go through the agony of "making it" is to reap the rewards that come with it.  Tell me Aeroosmith or ACDC or the Rolling Stones didn't jump at every opportunity to get bigger or put their faces out their more and more.
I also don't understand the theory that the black album was somehow a less commercial album than the albums that followed.  There is a slow song, multiple songs on the radio, and talk about processing.  There is no less processing on the black album than there is on Load.  Also, how is Garage Inc. a wasted album when it has great old stuff and covers of good rock songs as well.
In conclusion, I challenge you to defend these arguments.  Give me a specific band that you think has done it better for as long as Metallica has.  I want to hear more about the huge changes musically between the black album and later albums.  It might also be nice if you actually listened to the music you are trashing before you degrade it.  Maybe even listen to some older stuff instead of just your fragmented memories of glory so you have a good comparison.  Come back when you have an accurate picture of the whole music catalog.  Lastly, I just want to verify that it is spelled Velveeta and I know because it rocks just like Metallica does!

22 comments:

Scott said...

LOL! Chad, I've forwarded your rant to Metallica. I'm sure they'll put you on the payroll if they haven't already.

When the first bite of a five course meal tastes like dung, you don't keep eating and you probably won't go to that restaurant anymore...it's that simple.

I'm sure Dave Mustaine regretted getting the boot but most certainly not after he saw how queer Velvettica has become. Megadeth has stayed true to their roots.

The "changes" as you call them in whatever i heard on the radio sounded like something I edited and spliced together. It doesn't flow like the songs you mentioned.

The anti-commercial screw the man mentality that was the core of Metallica is dead. That's my point. Aerosmith, ACDC and the Rolling Stones NEVER presented themselves in this manner. Metallica has done a 180 from who they were to who they are now. Four washed up fags hawking guitar hero games.

I already recanted on drawing the line with the Black album. I'll take a step back to ...And Justice For All.

Garage Inc is a perfect example of how much they've slipped. Can you honestly say that you like disc one better than disc two (Garage Days Re-Revisited)? For me, there's no comparison.

In any art form, movies, music, theater, painting, etc, opinions are guaranteed to vary based on personal taste/preference. I prefer early Metallica, just as I prefer early Beatles.

I will agree to listen Dungheap Magnetic the next time I'm at your house and we can get more specific as to what you like it and why i think it sucks. :-D

Emerson Bigguns said...

Okay I hope they send me two tickets for their concert in Indy and I will make you go with me.
As far as flow I think you forgot that songs like orion, am i evil, master of puppets and lots more come to a complete stop and then hit you with a totally differnet sound. It's what they have been doing for a long time and this song is not that different. Good harmonies, fast riffs, and lots of headbanging is why I like this album. Plus the return of the solo.
BTW not all songs on disc one of garage inc. are from from garage days, some of them were new. Plus I like the first disc of the white album better than the second disc but I won't discount the entire album because of it.

sean3000 said...

"it is spelled Velveeta and I know because it rocks just like Metallica does!"LOL
I am obliged to confirm that although both Velveeta and Metallica DO rock, frequent consumption of either one may rot you from the inside.
heh heh couldn't help myself =P

Scott said...

Ummm...On Garage Inc...None of the songs from Disc 1 are from Re-Revisited. Disc 2 is the one that rocks. After doing some research I noticed that Bob Rock started producing Metallica's albums with the Black album. This is where the slide began. An excerpt from Wikipedia:

Bob Rock was chosen to produce Metallica's multiplatinum self-titled album (known as The Black Album) after the band's iconic admiration of Mötley Crüe's 1989 album Dr. Feelgood.[6] The Black Album was released in 1991 and subsequent followups produced by Rock included Load (1996), ReLoad (1997), Garage Inc. (1998) and S&M (1999). Metallica once again tapped Rock to produce their 2003 album St. Anger, in which he played bass guitar due to the departure of bassist Jason Newsted.

A petition that over 20,000 fans signed was posted online. The petition called for Metallica to dump Rock as producer, claiming he had too much influence on the band's sound and musical format. Rock claimed the petition was hurtful for his children. He was also quoted saying "Sometimes, even with a great coach, a team keeps losing. You have to get new blood in there."[7]

It's all clear to me now! They do sound like the worst album Motley Crue ever made! Also notice the petition signed by 20,000 fans. I am not alone is saying they've gone down hill. AND can we agree to that any songs by Metallica that don't have a frickin' guitar solo are crap??? Ha! :-D

Jerr-Dan said...

Metallica solos in Black Album and Master of Puppets = Amazing. Nothing short of it.

Metallica solos NOW = Red, Blue, Green, Red, Red+Blue(Hold), Yellow, Blue, Blue, Yellow+Red+Blue

The Moopes said...

This thread is nothing short of awesome.

Aimee said...

I don't like Metallica or velveeta (well may be velveeta sometimes, on a rare occasion), but this post is quite enjoyable! :-)

sean3000 said...

wait wait wait! "They do sound like the worst album Motley Crue ever made!" There are good MC albums? Now I'm not sure I can take your word on Metallica, Scott ;-)

but seriously, i think this thread has lost it's focus and the original points/counterpoints have not been thoroughly proven/unproven.
Has Metallica 'jumped the shark?' Have we named a band that has 'done it better for longer?' Why has the opinion of the Black Album suddenly gone from high to low just because we did some research on the producer? Either it rocks or it doesn't and I think the world consensus is that it does!

Personally I think that every band that "makes it big" has to jump the shark to do so... at least according to the original hardcore fans who for some reason begin thinking that it's bad for their band to become popular? But every successful 'band' including Elvis and the Beatles has eventually sucked at the teat of the sellout fairy. I don't like it either, but maybe that is just the way it goes. Perhaps the best way to combat being called a 'sellout' by all your fans is to make a string of albums nobody likes or buys =)

Scott said...

Responding to Sean's numerous questions... :-)

First of all, I don't listen to, nor do I own any of this music anymore. To have an intelligent conversation with Chad on this topic, I have to research. I'm blowing the dust off stuff I haven't listened to in years. What prompted the initial discussion was Metallica's Guitar Hero shark jumping sellout and the crap song I heard on the radio.

1) There are good MC albums? Only the 4x Multi-Platinum ones. Dr. Feelgood is where I jump ship. There are more things I dislike than like. Similarly, the Black Album...after research and comparing to And Justice and Master, I have to take a step back. The Black Album was the last Metallica album I liked. But there is more wrong with it than there is right with it only in comparison to And Justice and Master and previous albums. The Black Album is where the slide began. From Load on it's all down hill. This is not just my personal opinion...look at the record sales drop after the Black Album...

2) Has Metallica jumped the shark? Jordan's post says it best.

3) Have we named a band...blah blah blah? This question has nothing to do my post. They jumped the shark. Name a band that's done it better longer doesn't disprove Metallica jumped the shark and that i think they are sellouts and have not remained true to what Heavy Metal was all about and what Metallica USED TO BE ABOUT. However, this is a great idea for a separate post. Click here to see 25 artists/bands that have outsold Metallica. Yes, my friends the Bee Gees have bested Metallica.

4) Why has the opinion of the Black Album suddenly gone from high to low? a) It was never high. b) It was never low. c) It wasn't JUST because of research on the producer. I took a step back to And Justice because that was the high, FOR ME. The Black Album is not the low, but it is the start of the descent thanks to the Bob Rock Velveetica Experience. (see also album sales falling off a cliff after the Black Album)

5) Either it rocks or it doesn't. Sean's world is black and white. There's a whole world of color out there my friend. One of them is gray. Some of it rocks. Some of it doesn't.

6) It's not bad for a band to become popular. Elvis and the Beatles were commercial sellouts from the beginning. Metallica had the screw the man attitude. Sure they wanted to make money. But they wanted to do it their way or the highway. They changed, got married, got old and that's fine, but for cryin' out RED, GREEN, BLUE, YELLOW loud...not frickin' guitar hero! :-D

7) The best way to combat being called a sellout by me is to not be a heavy metal band starring in a commercial for Guitar Hero with four NCAA basketball coaches. Oh yeah and making songs that don't have guitar solos. /end rant

The Moopes said...

While I do not like their music I have always viewed Metallica as superior businessmen. It was no accident they came out of the 80's as being the kings of hard rock. Why bother with sticking true to their image for diehard fans who still may not like the album when they can tap into a much easier to please market (see: Star Trek)?

Besides, the days of multi-platinum CD sales are over. So why over-obsess about the quality of the album? Metallica is a brand and that is what they sold in the 80's with the we're one of you thing and that is what they are doing that now (just to a younger audience). Additionally, here is a list of the highest grossing tours of 2008 in North America. Now try to think was it a money maker because of a great album or businessperson?

Madonna - $105 million
Celine Dion - $94 million
Eagles - $73.4 million
Kenny Chesney - $72.2 million
Bon Jovi - $70.4 million
Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band - $69.3 million
Neil Diamond - $59.8 million
Rascal Flatts - $55.8 million
The Police - $48 million
Tina Turner - $47.7 million

My point is that perhaps successful bands realize that it is not about album quality anymore it's more about business savvy which Metallica has in spades. If they are ticking you off. Maybe that was on purpose.

Scott said...

Johnny5 said: The days of multi-platinum CD sales are over.

Johnny5 should have said: The days of Metallica selling multi-platinum CDs are over.

Go to www.riaa.org and search the database and you will find over 50 artists that went multi-platinum in the last 12 months. Among them: Carrie Underwood (7x!), AC/DC, Beyonce, Miley Cyrus, Hinder, Alicia Keys, Kid Rock, Justin Timberlake and lol the Twilight Soundtrack. They ALL outsold Metallica's Death Magnetic.

Doesn't business savvy above album quality = sellout by definition?

John, I think we can close out this thread because you've made my point perfectly. "It was no accident they came out of the 80's as being the kings of hard rock." Exactly!!! They were a HEAVY METAL BAND that sold out and became the kings of hard rock. There is a huge difference between Metal and Rock. This difference can be so very clearly heard by listening to Ride/Master/And Justice vs Load, Reload and so on. The Black Album is a transition and Death Magnetic is an attempt to go back to their roots.

I could never play Metallica's guitar solos...just didn't have the chops for it. But now we all can! Yay for a 4 button guitar and the Playstation!!!

The Moopes said...

Ok I realize that was a bit dramatic to say multi-platinum albums are "over" but when you compare it to 1988 or 1991 when a METAL band (sorry) could sell 15 million copies in the US the current situation is not good. I was going from the billboard information about 2008 sales. My point was that album sales are not as brisk as they once were. http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/lil-wayne-notches-top-selling-album-of-08-1003926030.story

The Moopes said...

Ok I realize that was a bit dramatic to say multi-platinum albums are "over" but when you compare it to 1988 or 1991 when a METAL band (sorry) could sell 15 million copies in the US the current situation is not good. I was going from the billboard information about 2008 sales. My point was that album sales are not as brisk as they once were. http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/lil-wayne-notches-top-selling-album-of-08-1003926030.story

sean3000 said...

i don't consider any thread to ever be closed, that is a little too black and white my friend. plus we have to allow rebuttals from those who do not have 24/7 internet access ;-)

Scott said...

I see your point J5. Especially these days when one guy buys Death Magnetic and then burns copies for 10 of his friends. However, why can Carrie Underwood go 7x in 2008 but Metallica is only platinum? Why did AC/DC hit 2x platinum in 1 month with Black Ice and Metallica is only platinum? Has AC/DC done it longer / better? The majority of Metallica's fans have left the building! I give Chad credit for sticking with the band though just like I stick with the Minnesota Vikings. Oh yeah, they suck too.

Click here for a funny comment that some feel that Death Magnetic sounds better on Guitar Hero!

Give this a listen and you be the judge...

The Moopes said...

Brief "answer" to your question.

"However, why can Carrie Underwood go 7x in 2008 but Metallica is only platinum?"

You're talking about Carrie Underwoods FIRST album right? It was made in 2005. That is not really apples to apples here to compare it to one released in September of 2008. Her first year for that debut album (which was riding the AI instant fanbase wave) she was in the 2 million range. And anyway wouldn't you say an artist who got into the music business through a karaoke contest has already jumped the shark?

Emerson Bigguns said...

Okay I know the rock band thing isn't the coolest thing to do but to prove my point that everyone does it here are some bands on the song list from rock band 1 and 2: Motorhead, Rage Against the Machine, Nine Inch Nails, Iron Maiden, and yes, get ready Scott, Megadeth!! Oh no the go-to band just sold out too! Well I don't think any of those bands would be considered huge sellouts, but they are all on there. Red, yellow, blue or whatever buttons you want to make fun of, all those bands saw the green and went for it. Did I mention Megadeth was on there? Just in case I forgot.

Scott said...

LOL, Chad! (no really, literally laughing out loud) Stupid Megadeth...(if we were playing chess, you just took my Queen)

Scott said...

J5, I didn't realize that was her first album and yes anyone who gets their start on Idol gets the shark jumping out of the way right out of the gate! :-D

There were still MANY artists that released albums in 2008 that went multi-platinum or greater. For example: AC/DC Black Ice, went 2x multi-platinum in 1 month. Death Magnetic did not.

Scott said...

At this point:

1) I have agreed to listen to Death Magnetic to give the entire album a fair chance before I say it's dung. While listening I will compare to their previous work and attempt to help Chad realize that everything from the Black Album on is inferior.

2) Apparently ALL heavy metal bands from the 80's either sold out to survive or aren't around anymore. On one hand I still cling to the ideal that Metallica could have maintained their "true identity" or something resembling that, rather than what they have become which may or may not be proven by declining album sales which is skewed by the fact that most people steal music everyday by burning cds and thereby reduce album sales. There are many variables so it's difficult to say. I guess we'll see how many copies of Guitar Hero: Metallica are purchased! :-D

sean3000 said...

i think the real sellout is Bobby Knight for doing a commercial with a bunch of obviously washed up metalheads like Metallica. ;-)

Scott said...

Yeah, he's frickin' Bob Knight! Setup a sports blog so we can debate that!!